Are You Better Off - Page 23 (2024)

Originally Posted by davidadavis

83, what mistakes do you think I need to confess? I didn’t advocate for the Canadian system, nor have I ever claimed to know enough about it to make a fair comparison.

My problem with you is that you keep hitting a screw with a hammer. Stop shouting the same numbers, even if they are correct it should be obvious I don’t get into the exact numbers (nor have I ever disputed yours, other than to say they are more complicated/integrated). It also wouldn’t hurt if you admitted a truly free market system would be a hard pill for the nation (average joes) to swallow. We are so far removed from it that it would be a massive colossal change... requiring a painful transition.

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And great, you admit healthcare is more complicated than what you have represented here... but saying it to GC/Gary in the past isn’t saying it to me.

I guess in a nutshell... take a chill pill, lol.

I hit a screw with a hammer? The cost of the Candian system is the fundamental building block after which other facts must be weighed against.

I repeat these numbers over and over because ANY discussion afterwards is pointless unless that fact is understood.

And all of that wasted time could have been avoided if GC and Gary clicked on links proving these fundamental facts.

You came around at the end of me being pissed at GC again. And you think I need to chill because if it.

These threads go no where productive because he keeps pulling us back to the starting gate.

You trust Lahrs? You think he's an honest, informed guy with an open mind? You've seen him say several times in this thread, and others, the numbers are correct. He's looked at what I posted and did his own research. Something GC should have done years ago. I told GC on several occasions yo look at the links and search to find anything disputing these numbers. I've looked and can't find anything. If there is, I want to see them. He hasn't even looked. Maybe out of fear he'd have to admit he's wrong? Not sure.

Good thing Lahrs did look and found nothing disputing the numbers as I have.

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Now GC is stuck on our system with me. See the above post. He wants to know about additional costs on our system due to the VA, Medicare, Medicaid, etc. All things I've acknowledged add into it.

But nickle and diming down to the penny is the pointless muck and mire we are stuck in.

Here's a quick answer to his latest inquiry. Which he's asked and I've answered a dozen times, BTW. The Candian system costs the average family $12k give or take based on some minor variables. I would pay about $16. That's for the single payer system alone. Add on top of that $3600 a year for a suplimental plan. 70% of Candians have one because it's needed. Add on top of that out of pocket expenses not covered by either. That can be $0 per year or a few thousand. Ask Lahrs about that reality. If I lived in Canada, this year I would be paying several thousand out of pocket. Canada says this number is 20% of all medical expenses are out of pocket. So if we add up what I would pay on average on Canada, it would be $16k plus the $3600 for the suplimental. That is $19600 per year. Every year at the bare miminum. Add on top of that any costs not covered by single payer or my suplimental. That number would be an average of something, but it's a highly individualized cost that would likely change from year to year. So let's just say I'm at $20k a year. That's a low estimate IMHO, but close enogh to be in the ballpark. Each year. Every year. Here is the USA my premium is $13200 a year. I also have a $1500 HSA wich I usually use 100% of. But it's a good estimate of out of pocket expenses. It's possible I could have a MAX out of pocket of $6k with my plan. So my average per year is around $14700. Let's say it's $15k on average per year to make it easy. So now Brian is asking about the additional money needed to fund the VA and Medicare, etc. Yup. There's that. Does it add up to the approx $5k additional Canada's system would cost me. Who knows. I'd guess no, but maybe.

But that's not the point of me bringing up the numbers. To nickel and dime the numbers. First off, it's impossible to do so. It's an average calculation. It was a rough calculation to show both our systems are in the same ballpark. That's it. To get us away from the misinformation Gary and GC base all their opinions on. That Canada's system costs the average guy $300-800. Those are numbers they have been tossing out for years.

And all they had to do was look.

GC posts his circular insanity trying to disprove points I've never made. You came in on the tail end of the latest round of it, and tossed in your two cents that I've been unreasonable.

Sorry, but getting pissed a grown man can't click a link and pull off his blinders for a second isn't unreasonable.

A few months ago you had a tiff with another member. I caught in on the action after you both were well into it. And the first posts I read, you were a bit pissed. I could have jumped to conclusions not knowing the back story. I didn't. I went back to the beginning of your tiff with said member, and it became clear why your temper elevated.

You jumped in when I gave an answer that possibly didn't make sense to you. Your question wasn't very clear. I may have answered a question you weren't asking. I actually wasn't even entirely sure if you were asking about our system or Canada's. But I took my best guess as to what you asked and gave an answer also based on that and the point GC and I were stuck on, again: The actual price of Canada's system. As usual. Because he refuses to look at the actual facts and listen to an honest guy like Lahrs(a genuine Candian).

My frustration as to where he has dragged every healthcare debate is warrented. He's arguing nickels and dimes and points that I've not made. When my only point was, the costs in Canada are no where even close to what he and Gary were claiming. But admitting when wrong is not his strong suit.

Yes, GC. Our system stinks and its expensive.

Watch, he will still go on and on about "What about X?" in our system or "What about Y?" when that was never the point. The point was to clear the lie that Canada's system in only a few hundred dollars per month.

Both systems stink. Why would we dump our system for a system that might stink slightly less? Let's come up with a better idea. But we can't even begin that conversation.

Lahrs brought up Australia's system. I looked into it. Seems like the better choice. PHM brought up a national co-op separate from congress. That's an intriguing idea to chat about. But here we are again talking about $100 bucks here and $100 bucks there compared to Canada's system. He still won't stop even after Lahrs has tried to straighten him out a few times now.

So I apologize for any frustration that went your way. I try to keep it directed towards the deserving party. If it went your way before your snarky comment yesterday, I didn't mean for that to happen.

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